Anne Moss is today’s guest on the Niche Pursuits podcast. She has been creating websites from scratch since 1998 and has a portfolio of 25 websites, earning just shy of $200,000 each month.
With around 5 million monthly page views and a staggering 1000 articles posted each month, it is fascinating and a pleasure to listen to what Ann has to say about her journey and the advice and knowledge she shares during the episode.
The interview starts with Anne briefly explaining how and when she started online. Then, she shares her thoughts on a wide range of topics related to website building, including how she selects a niche topic and the thought process she goes through, and various other advice and guidance on keyword research, RPM, managing a portfolio and much more.
As you can imagine, 1000 articles published each month is huge, so listening to her process for managing, creating, evaluating, and updating the content is fascinating.
In addition, Anne talks about link building in a way that may surprise you and gives her thoughts on growing a website from scratch and how to increase your RPM (Revenue per 1000 page views).
- How she monetizes the websites
- Average RPM for the sites
- How she and her husband created a business plan to create massive growth during the pandemic
- Four key influencers for niche selection
- How she and her husband overcome the language barrier when starting out
- The number of writers she hires
- Software and tools used
- Training her writers
- Her thoughts on what is working well in 2022
- Checking website stats and evaluating progress
- What she thinks about long tail keywords
- Why some keyword tools can be misleading
- Thoughts on video and images for the websites
- Updating content
- Plus much more
To finish, Anne shares her website portfolio goals and has some words of wisdom for anyone currently building websites — this is excellent advice from someone crushing it online.
As always, enjoy the episode and take notes.
Links & Resources:
watch the interview:
read the transcription:
Jared: Welcome back to the niche pursuits podcast. My name is Jared Bauman, and today we are joined by Anne Moss and welcome on board.
Anne: Hi Jared. Thank you for having me.
Jared: I’m really excited about this one. I have to say this, uh, this is a topic that I, I love that we’re talking about. I mean, obviously we’re talking about building websites, but you and your husband have a team that has really mastered the scale of building websites.
And so I’m just so excited for all the different things we get to dive into today. Why don’t you bring us up to speed? You have a fun little journey to where you’ve gotten so far and maybe catch us up on. Okay.
Anne: So maybe I’ll start with where we are right now, because it’s kind of, I, I don’t wanna say it’s the end point because we’re still growing, but right now we have a company with a portfolio of 25 websites.
Um, and we have a team of over 50 people who help us full time. And that’s everything. Writers, editors, um, VAs, graphic designers, everyone, pretty much. We also work with freelance freelance writers in addition to that, um, and we currently produce, uh, just over 1000 posts each month. And it is, it definitely has been a long journey to get to this point.
So I’ll start with my origin story. it’s uh,
Jared: um, thousand posts per month. I’m just laughing cuz this, the scale in my head is so big. So
Anne: I, it tastes big. It’s big. It’s big in my head too. I’m still getting used to it. It’s new. So I basically started out in 1998 a very long time ago. I’m originally from. And I was in the ID IDF back then an officer in the IDF.
And they started with this thing called the internet back in the nineties. Right.
Jared: So that would put it around then wouldn’t it? Yeah. Yeah.
Anne: And, and I, I taught myself to, uh, code in HTML and it was kind of fun, you know, just to see how you can make your screen respond to, to all kinds of instructions and, and font and colors and stuff.
And the internet was brand new. I mean, there just weren’t enough websites, uh, out there to cover all kinds of topics. And I decided that I wanna, you know, try this out. So I created a couple of websites in Hebrew. And they turned out, I think quite nice. And mostly, there was just zero competition. just nobody else out there.
Jared: So that is truly the definition of no competition at that point.
Anne: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So everything was brand new and, and got a lot of media attention. So I got interviewed like by the national radio and newspapers and everyone just because it was so new. And like a couple of years later we figured, you know, this is working out so nice.
And he went, there’s such. Huge market out, out there in English. So why not try and switch over to that. And at that point I left the army and we decided to open. We as myself and my husband, I said, let’s try this out. And we started our first website in English. And at first I basically hired translators to just translate what I had in I Hebrew into English.
And it took me a while to, uh, get more comfortable with the language and. Start writing on my own. And it basically grew from there. And what we started was a forum site. OK. So we started a forum site in English and it kept growing, uh, over the years. And around that time I also had my kids. So, uh, that sort of slows you down a little, at least I did in my case.
Tell me about it. Yeah. So a couple of kids and we decided to homeschool as well. So basically at that point I sort of went into the slow and just. You know, backed out of, of working and fortunately around 2000, um, and 11, it was, I was approached by a us company that suggested to just take, you know, go into a partnership with us on the forum side, they took over pretty much everything, the platform, the monetization, everything else.
And I, you know, we continued making money from, from the site, but I didn’t have to do a whole lot of work together. So it worked out really well and moved forward to 2016. They, uh, backed out. They, you know, they, they, they changed their strategy and we had to go back to managing our site. Um, Full time and it coincided, you know, with the kids growing and everything.
So that was a good timing for me as well. And at that time, um, Heather bidding started and RPM rates shot up because back, you know, I dunno how many people here, you know, listeners would know, um, much about RPM 10 or 15 years ago, but back then we were making. One, two, $3 for every 1000 views. That was the, you know, the price was like, I had a site that had 3 million pages at one point, but it wasn’t making that much money.
Oh yeah. Uh, so, so once the RPM rates began to, um, go up, we decided that this is a good time for us to expend. So at that time I knew that you can make money online, right? It wasn’t like some vague notion I was making money online. That was how I was making a living. But, uh, we could suddenly see that there is a whole lot more potential to death.
And so at 2018, I decided to go into niche sites, uh, in addition to the forum site. Um, and that’s when I started creating my current portfolio. So six sites to begin with and growing from.
Jared: Why don’t you let us know where you’re at right now in terms of the scope and maybe, you know, revenue numbers or whatever you’re comfortable sharing.
And then we’ll start diving into the process of how you got there, because there’s a lot that’s happened since that 20 16, 20 17 period where you started six sites
Anne: yeah, yeah, definitely a lot. Um, so right now we, um, trying to cross the $200,000 per month revenue point almost there. So 190 something for the last couple of months.
Jared: Um, I just wait one more month to interview you. We could have been, we probably could have been the 200
Anne: hopefully, hopefully fingers crossed. Yeah. That that will be the figure for August, but, you know, July RP was low. So we, we, we were hoping to do this in, in July, but it’s gonna hopefully happen in August, but pretty close to that.
So that’s where we are now. Um, and that’s from around almost 5 million monthly pages.
Jared: Okay, so a decent number of page views. yeah. How many sites make up the portfolio at this point with the, uh, with the 5 million page views?
Anne: So it’s, it’s 25 websites right now. The number keeps changing because we’ve been adding more sites over the last year or so.
I see, I have a scroll there in the
Jared: background. I noticed that I noticed that that’s, that’s a good, that’s a scroll with a good bushy tail and a good climbing. Never
Anne: on em. Yeah. We live in the forest here. So all kinds of creators come by my window, which kind of nice. So 25 websites, but not a, all of them are large.
Uh, we have five websites that bring in like 80% of the revenue and, um, maybe 70% of the revenue. And then the rest, um, goes, you know, divided between the other sites.
Jared: It, it, I mean, it, on paper, it looks like kind of that classic 80, 20, 80% of the revenue comes from like 20 or percent or so of your, of your sites.
And then the rest make up the bulk of the portfolio.
Anne: Mm-hmm . Yeah, but, but they’re also much smaller. So the big sites are really big. Like we have sites with three or 4,000 posts per site. Um, and that just, you know, the sheer size is what generates all the, all of
Jared: that traffic is most of your revenue split on the RP.
I mean, sorry, the ad revenue side, you mentioned RPMs. That’s what I was thinking. Is most of your revenue coming from ad generated revenue or are you also in affiliate spaces? Um, or other types of, uh, you know, uh, uh, you know, revenue opportu.
Anne: So I would 90 to 95%, depending on the month comes from display ads.
And then the rest is just Amazon affiliates.
Jared: Okay. So yeah, very heavily invested in producing content that generates, uh, ad revenue mm-hmm . And you talked about how obviously 10 years ago. I mean, it was just ad sense, I think, right. It was, there was no real, other way to put an ad on your site or maybe there were, but they didn’t pay very well either, but then now fast forward to today, what kind of RPMs do you see?
It’s hard to say cuz you have 25 sites, but do you have an expectation or an average RPM that you see across the
Anne: board? Um, it really depends on the niche, but, and we work both with media vine and ad thrive. So we have sites with both, um, and anything between 25 and uh, 65. Okay. And again, you know, it depends on the month and, you know, season, things like that, but on a good month, like June was a good month.
So June we saw like an average of 67 on one for sites. Um,
Jared: wow. That’s fantastic. That’s very high, obviously. You know, I think anybody would be happy with that. Well, I wanna talk a bit about, I mean, it’s just so rare for us to have someone who’s managing so much successfully like you on this podcast. I guess I wanna spend a few minutes.
And, and for those people who are listening, maybe who are thinking about it, I don’t manage 25 sites. I don’t even manage five sites. What I wanna, I wanna talk to you about some tactics mm-hmm cause obviously you have a lot of knowledge that we could learn from, from managing and seeing so much. But before we get into that, can you talk about how you got from your first site to six sites to 25 sites?
Did you start most of ’em yourself? Is there a process behind it? Did you acquire most of these? Um, when you acquired, were they big or small? I’m just curious how you go from one to six to 25 and maybe what the steps looked like for you. Mm-hmm
Anne: so, um, we haven’t bought any of these sites. We created all of them.
Okay. And I am the kind, I think it’s just my mindset. Um, I tend to focus on STR it’s easier for me to focus on strategy and big pictures and big and processes rather than, you know, specific projects. I used to compare that I used to play StarCraft back. I don’t know if people still play that, but I, I remember playing that.
Yeah. So my spread, so it’s, it’s uh, for those who don’t know the game, it’s, uh, real time strategy game, where you build your basis, create your resources and then fight your opponent. So what I. My strategies was strategy was always to create multiple bases. So I would just go and start one and then start another one, then start a third.
I would completely ignore any kind of skirmishes or attacks going on in the background and just stay very focused on growing my resources. And then, and that’s, that’s how I would usually win because, you know, I, I, people tend, I think it’s the same with websites. So, so many people tend to like focus on the small stuff and like spend a very long while on optimization on, I don’t know, internal link building on all kinds of stuff that I’m not sure.
It really, I, I, I just ignore of that and look at the bigger picture and just keep on creating content and creating websites. So, so that’s basically how I got from from one to six to 25 is. Deciding that this is where we’re going. And once I’ve made a decision, it’s just a question. If, you know, putting the, the wheels in motion and just making it happen.
Um, and at, when I started with the six sites, I used to do the whole process. So, but I had a process now, right. So I had like, okay, choose the domain name, choose, I mean, choosing each choose domain name and then have, you know, a list of steps to install the site, install the plugin tweak stuff, uh, you know, prepare the content plan.
Everything was very, uh, structured. So it was just a matter of, of just following the plan step by step. And then you just reach the destination and ignoring everything else on the way. So not, you know, you can, so some people. I think it’s easy to do to get like sucked in, into Hmm. What, what logo would I have?
What do main names should I choose? And then people spend weeks on deciding on that perfect domain name or perfect logo or whatever. And I’m just not that doing that. I just, okay. I have two hours to come up with five domain names, so that’s what I’m doing. And I don’t care if they’re not perfect, they need to be good enough.
I know, I know with my criteria, everything that meets my criteria, that’s good enough. Move on. It doesn’t really matter that much. You know, you don’t have to have the perfect domain name. It just needs to be good enough. Um, and the same with its site design with templates, all of that. I just tend to go through that very fast.
And so, um, and, and we do have a business plan. And we have that. We have like a plan and we created that one, you know, I guess I sort of skipped a step before when I described what, what, what really made us grow was COVID. So when COVID started my husband, you know, we were, went into lockdowns and all of that.
Um, and he couldn’t go go to his work. So we said, okay, maybe this is what we needed. Now that you’re available. And he specializes in operation research and he’s a numbers guy. And I said, you know, maybe we can ring you on now full time. Cuz he used to help me before that. But now he. All this time, free time.
So I said, okay, maybe we can go big with this. So he sat down and he created these very detailed and very sophisticated spreadsheets where he, um, outlined the future of the business, depending on our investment, the number of posts that we were to create. So we had all of these, you know, um, assumptions, like post would cost this much to make, and it would make that much and, and so on.
And like, and he put in all of the numbers and did his magic and, and came up with these, these projections, um, that we would make this amount of money two years from now, if we were to invest this amount now and this number of posts, and we just work with that, once you have that plan in place, and we decided what we were comfortable with in terms of the investment.
Once you have that in place, you just go with it, you know, you just follow the steps. Um,
Jared: you. Yeah, it’s one thing to have a plan, but it is another thing to execute at the, at the level you’ve done. I think, I think creating a plan like that is complicated. Executing it the way you have is probably even, I don’t know.
I would say probably even more complicated because to manage, say like you said earlier, a thousand posts a month and, um, 25 sites and that sort of thing. That’s a lot, that’s, that’s a lot. Well, that’s great. I mean, that does make sense. And I love that we have a StarCraft reference for, uh, probably the first time in website podcast history.
Uh, but it does make sense. It really does make sense. Yeah. And I mean maybe let me ask you a, a more detailed question, more tactical question. How do you, you you’ve picked 25 niches. Now you’ve done research and you’ve kind of picked 25 different niches. You haven’t bought any of those websites. You started them all from scratch.
What do you look for when it comes to a niche? And I’m guessing, you know, because your model is a heavy, you know, that that certainly probably has a bit of an influence on what you pick, but what are some of the, the criteria you have when going into your next, uh, website?
Anne: So I look at several things.
First thing that I wanna say is that there is enough traffic in the niche. So it’s always a question. How big of a nature I wanna target there. I think there are pros and cons to going with a small niche or, you know, versus a big one. I move between the two. Like I, sometimes some, sometimes I should. I’m saying, okay, let’s go with a bigger one and get a domain that can cover.
5,000 posts or 10,000 posts in the future. Mm-hmm sometime in the future have that, you know, domain that has that potential to grow to that size. Other times I’m thinking maybe when you wanna go, like with a micro nature, maybe it’s gonna be just 500, uh, posts. That’s the limit. That’s how much, you know, you can go with with this topic.
Um, so, but, but either way, whatever I’m planning, I wanna make sure that there is enough traffic out there that people are searching, that the search volume is out there. That that’s the first consideration. The second thing obviously is the competition. Um, and so before I commit to an niche, I, I begin by creating a content plan, even before I buy the domain or anything like that.
And I actually sit down and do the research, do the topic research and see if I can come up. With at least 50 topics that, um, I think will generate at least a few hundred, uh, pages each month. On average, obviously you can never tell for sure, right. For a specific post. Yeah. But like on average, in terms of both the, um, the search volume out there and the competition.
So I wanna find those where I think there is still enough traffic out there that is like super low competition, preferably zero competition. Uh, as in no one has targeted this specific worry, uh, before. Um, and then if I can find these 50 and it’s easy for me to find them, like I can find them within two to three hours now that, you know, we can move with this one with this snitch, um, If I’m struggling, if I’m sitting there like for two hours and I just barely manage to find 10 to 15, then I’ll probably skip the, and, and try and find something else.
Um, and then I also look at things like, um, how can we monetize? And by we, obviously we monetize using display ads. Right. So, yeah. Yeah. It’s like, who cares? We can always put ads on a site, but I am trying to assess the RPM by, uh, seeing how the niche as a whole is monetized. So if they have like lots of products and people buy a lot of things, um, like, like take the pet niche, for example.
So I know that people who have a dog I’m not in the dog niche, so , I feel very comfortable giving it as an example. So there you go. So I know that people buy lots of stuff for their dogs, right. And they pay super high vet bills and, and all of that. So. I, I know that the expense is out there and, and once people spend money, then advertisers will spend the dollars to get to these people.
So I know that there is, you know, the, there will be campaigns targeting the, the dog people. Um, sometimes it’s not even a direct, um, question of the topic of the site. Sometimes it’s just, you know, if you go for, um, luxury, I don’t know, luxury travel. Then I would assume that the audience with a luxury travel, uh, website will probably have money to buy luxury cars or, you know, just buy very high end products.
And therefore they’re the, the kind of demographic that campaigns in general would like to target. So, so that’s another consideration. That’s basically the third one and then a very small consideration of how easy is it to create a content for the niche. Uh, some niches it’s like super easy because it’s very easy to find writers, um, dogs, for example, everybody loves dogs, right?
Dogs. Yeah. So it’s very easy to find writers who will be very happy to write about anything dog related. Whereas if you were to go, uh, and write about, I don’t know, finance or something that. At least to me is boring. I dunno. Some people find, I guess there’s always someone who will find anything interesting, but , uh, your
Jared: husband sounds like he might be interested in that topic.
you know what,
Anne: even he, I mean, he does it, he deals with it, but he doesn’t laugh it. Right. It’s it’s very, very, yeah. So, um, so that will be a, that be niche where it’d be much more difficult to find people. Also the level of expertise needed to even just begin to write the answers. So if it’s, you know, how to brush your dog or something like that, it’s not that difficult.
You write a few, you, you read a few articles, you watch a couple YouTube videos, you can write about it. That’s the level of expertise needed. Whereas it’s, it’s about finance. Then, you know, you better know something about that in advance. It’s not that easy to do the research if you know nothing about it.
Um, so four considerations, um, that, you know, four things that I take into consideration that, uh, search volume competition, um, how easy it is to write about the niche and. What was the fourth one? I did mention it right now. you
Jared: had the RPM potential or the revenue potentials. Thank you. Yeah. yeah, no, I was gonna sum up the same way I was gonna say.
So it sounds like it, you make it sound very easy, but there’s actually quite a few influencers. Yeah. To what goes into this. And you’re kind of looking almost for the needle in the haystack. You’re trying to find something that’s a collection of low competition underserved, or actually you said not served at all.
Mm-hmm in a space that people spend money in, but that it’s easy to find writers when, and you don’t have to pay an Al leg to get those writers. Right.
Anne: Yeah, and well, simple it’s once you have it, you know, set up like this and it’s very easy, the criteria, you know, they’re there. So I can just go and say, now nothing is perfect.
Right? Like you said, finding that would be like the perfect niche, but I’m okay with just getting three out of four sometimes, or I’m saying, okay. Maybe, you know, I, I’m not sure about the search volume, but it is low competition. The R you know, I think the RPM potential is high and I, I should be able to find people who would love to write about this.
So, you know, let’s give it a try. We’ll see. And not all of my, not all of our sites succeed. That’s okay. As well.
Jared: I think it’s part of the, yeah. So maybe going down that road, maybe, you know, you find a, a topic that’s never been addressed in finance mm-hmm and, you know, finance. Uh, generally speaking maybe is a high pain RPM, and it’s an area where you have, uh, resources that you can tap into for writers, but it’s gonna cost a lot to produce the content, but maybe it’s still worth it because you got three or three outta those four or something like that.
Exactly. Yeah. Let me ask you, why don’t you have a site in the dog niche? Um,
Anne: because I found a pets in general, uh, dog specifically is super saturated. BEC I don’t know why, because all of the, uh, courses and how to build niche websites, tell people to go for something that they love, uh, start your first site.
You know, you have to write it yourself. So write about something you love and everybody loves dogs and fishing, so , they stupid so like, and, and they all use the same, you know, long tail, uh, keyword research, uh, methods. So you end up, we’re having everything just fully covered every possible angle. So I just stay out
Jared: of these so people spend a lot of money on dogs, but it’s just too darn saturated.
Okay. Yeah. Fair enough. I just, I had to ask, let me ask about the, maybe the, the content system you have. And I, I think there’s something for all of us to learn here. I have a. Couple websites, myself. A lot of people listening are on their first website or maybe have a couple as well. You have 25, I’m guessing you don’t read all thousand articles that your team publishes every month.
Mm-hmm . How have you created systems? Maybe you can give us some high level tips around a content process, whether it ranges from keyword research to article brief, to writing, to editing, to publishing. How do you ensure that the content matches, uh, I’m guessing you’re gonna say SOPs, but even at that level, like how do you kind of manage the SOPs and make sure they’re being Val, um, done.
Anne: So first it’s always a challenge and we try to keep improving. Um, you know, I can’t say that we’ve perfected the, a system, but we keep improving. So we have an organization right now. I mean, 50 full-time people that’s, you know, have to have, they have to be organized in some kind of structure. Um, and we have that.
We have, uh, what we call divisions within the company. Um, and like, there are people in the company right now where there are two levels of managers between me and them. So, uh, it’s like, it’s, it’s structured otherwise this thing wouldn’t, you know, it just couldn’t work. Um, so we have, uh, we have writing teams basically.
And then, uh, there are team leaders and they manage their writers directly and. We have someone who manages those team leaders. And then she works with me directly, um, with weekly reports and, and calls and everything. So that’s, that’s the level that I, where I get involved. So if there is like issues, she would, you know, they escalate up all the way to me, but most like most of everything is done without my, uh, involvement.
Um, and we have this similar setup for, uh, what we call publication, which is basically a team of, um, of graphic designers slash, and they’re the ones who take the, the written content. They take these articles, they add the images, stock photos, optimize images, whatever is needed, and then publish and, you know, move on.
So it’s like this conveyor belt, this, uh, factory that we have and everything. We use, um, click up. Okay. Um, but I think, you know, there is Monday there’s, uh, a sauna, there’s all kinds of software that lets you do the same thing. But for us click up works very well. Um, and we have a workflow and that’s anchored into click up.
So every, uh, article is a click up task and it has this process that it goes through. So it, it gets created. Right. And then there’s a template with the task description with, you know, what it is that we want from the writers. We don’t, um, create specific outlines for each article. Mostly sometimes we have like special items of content where I say, I really wanna go big with this one.
This is gonna be a major post. 99% of the times, we, we don’t deal with that. We just tell the writer, this is the, uh, title. Uh, we train the writers. So we have, uh, they go through a training, uh, period, and then we teach them how to create their own outline. So they know how to do that. And then we, you know, it goes from the writer to the editor, from the editor into, uh, what we call logging, which is basically where they get paid.
So it gets into their, uh, payment spreadsheets. And then, um, it moves on to adding media. Publication and it goes out, uh, there’s always, um, there are, we have the editors, so there’s writer and editors. So at least two people reading the text and then the people, the team leaders, um, um, and, um, the team leaders can edit, but they don’t necessarily edit themselves so that there are editors that they work with, but they do spot check everything.
So they, uh, um, like randomly check a certain percentage of each writer’s work after editing to make sure that it, you know, follows the, the guidelines that we, uh, provide. And then the people above them, like their managers spot checks, uh, after them, and then make sure that, and I sometimes project stuff and I go, and I go back and say, Hey, You know, I think this could have been done a little bit differently and, you know, and, and we have a lot of discussions around that.
We have meetings, we have editors meetings and calls and, and the team leaders meet with the writers. And like, there’s a lot of, of ongoing discussion within the company about how to write stuff. And like some, sometimes people will come up with questions even about things like grammar or, or, or how to, how so we, we encourage that kind of discussion and that kind of, um, I guess, uh, mutual, you know, growth and, and, um, so that’s, that’s one way how we get better.
Uh, I hope , uh, at creating content, but it it’s a system. There’s a workflow. It all goes through, uh, step by step. And I’m just, I, I, I’m tried to at least just do strategy and not really deal with all the nitty gritty of the production
Jared: process. Well, that was almost, that was kinda my next question. I mean, you have a conveyor belt system set up basically for, for all your content.
You’re producing so much of it, and that’s a very systematized approach to something that can, I don’t wanna say be templated, but can be systematized out. What about the, I’ll call it the intangible side of building websites where, you know, it’s been three months for this. And some content’s been published and someone needs to go in and kind of look at the site and figure out the direction going forward.
Or it’s been a year or a site drops a little bit in revenue and someone needs to go in and kind of understand, uh, what needs to happen to get it back on track or all these intangible things that come up along the way that maybe it’s harder to systematize, or maybe you do have systems for that. And people for that, I’m curious.
Anne: No. So that’s me. , that’s the part. That’s where I get involved. So I called, I consider that to be strategy that goes beyond the ongoing production. Um, and I check stats every day. I just, uh, I like it. I enjoy it, but it’s, I think it’s also a good way to sort of catch issues. Like sometimes it can be a problem with the website and that’s the way for me to see it wide rate of hour to wait a week, we could easily like lose $10,000 just because I didn’t catch that soon enough.
So I do that every day. Um, and we, my husband and I together, we have a once a month evaluation of all of the portfolio. So we go over the stats for the previous month and see where we are going and how the site is doing. You know, we try our, our main metric is dollar per post. So how many dollars per post does this site make overall?
It can be from traffic and be from RPM. So sometimes there may be, you know, like a drop. And one of the parameters can be just the RPM or just the, uh, or just the, the, the, the traffic we don’t know. But then we start looking into that to see what happened. Mm-hmm and that’s where, um, so they’re constantly monitored the sites.
Jared: Ooh, that sounds like a lot. I mean, you know, obviously you’re doing it, you’re doing it well, and I it’s, you. It’s clear, you have a mind for it. Um, it sounds like a lot to try to keep track of a lot of plates to spin or whatever, whatever acronym or analogy you want to use there. And I’m, I’m, I’m fascinated by that.
It sounds like, but you guys have a good system in place. So it sounds like that’s something that, that,
Anne: uh, and, and a lot of that is automated. So like checking the stats. I don’t have to go into Google analytics and just start, you know, using their dropdown menu and see each site separately. We have a spreadsheet that, um, my has created where that just automatically goes to Google analytics and grabs everything from there and just displays it in one single chart.
So I get a, like an overview of the entire portfolio day by day, uh, seeing if things are going up or down and then I can just, you know, go and see, because like, I. It’s just a bunch of sites that are the larger sites. So if I’m seeing the traffic going up or down, these are the primary suspects and that’s where I would go and, and check to see what happened.
And then if I need to, I can also dig into the smaller sites. Um, it is a challenge though. I’m sure that, you know, the smaller sites they could potentially benefit from having someone, you know, take a deeper look, uh, closer look and, and, um, but you know, like you said, it’s the 80 20 rule. So we focus on the big ones and then see what happens with the rest.
Jared: Um, yeah. And the reason I ask is I I’ve, I think I’ve interviewed someone here before, where, who had a larger portfolio and they, they would assign like a manager to five sites say, um, I’m not quoting them directly. I can’t remember exactly with you, but basically there’s like a SEO manager or whatever they call them that.
Manages that part that you’re talking about for maybe five, a collection of five sites in the portfolio or, or a certain number of page views. Uh, and they divvy the sites out accordingly. So, you know, there’s a different couple different ways to kind of crack that nut, I guess. Mm-hmm yeah. How big you mentioned this automations that you have from Google analytics to a spreadsheet, it brings up a larger question.
How, how much do automations play a role in allowing you guys to handle scale at this size? Do you have a lot of. Obviously you have a lot of systems, but outside of the systems that people follow, do you have many automations set up or anything like that?
Anne: Yeah. Yeah, sure. Click up blends itself. Very well to automation.
So we use that. We make use of that. Um, anything from like, you know, as, since the, as the writer would move the, the, the post into editing. So things happen like there’s the, the, the due date changes automatically or notifications go out and all of that. So we have automations even, even, uh, just bringing in the topics from the, uh, spreadsheet where you have the content plan into click up.
So automatically click up, takes those, and it’s the template and all of that. So there’s a lot that can just be done, you know, it’s, it’s automated and click up. Does that quite.
Jared: I want to maybe switch gears a bit and take a step back and imagine that we’re sitting here, you do this every day, looking over your, your 25 sites and with, um, how many page views did you say a month?
Is it, is it 5 million page views a month? Yeah. Five mil. Okay. So you kind of have this vision of, uh, of websites right now. That’s maybe a little larger than the rest of us. Get to see, and we get to see what’s working. What’s not working across, uh, a hundred thousand page views or across 20,000 page views.
And you get to see it across 5 million page views a month. What are some things that you’re seeing in 2022 that you know, are working well that you could share like some pretty high level, uh, findings that, that you get to see with that
Anne: mm-hmm . So, first of all, I also have the time perspective, cuz I. At least we haven’t always been at 5 million, but I have like two to three years where it’s been growing.
So I’ve seen things change. So, um, I’d say, um, I think we generally apply the long tail approach. So that’s typically the kind of content that we try to, um, to, to, to, you know, the kind of traffic that we try to, to target. I think that’s getting more difficult, uh, as time goes by, um, lots of people. I think it’s, it’s a great industry in the sense that you don’t have, you don’t need a lot of, of capital, you know, to start out, just to start, anyone can start a website, basically.
Right. And mm-hmm um, and the right way to start a brand new, uh, website is go after these long tail, uh, queries. So it just gets, like I said, just like with a dog niche. So it happens in other niches as well. Um, people just. I think even more than, than before, since the, um, I’d say October, November updates, Google updates last year, and they hit affiliate sites really, really hard.
And then you get, well, that’s my theory. I dunno, I’ve tried, but that’s how I imagine it. You got this bunch of, uh, of affiliate, uh, you know, publishers who specialize in affiliate content and they have their own content machines and they work large scale. And now they got hit with this algorithm, um, update.
And so they have this machine that they need to use and they know that people are making okay, money with displays and this sort of shifted right from affiliate to display ads. And it just became far more crowded. So I can see that the young result it’s just, when I work on getting topics, it, it just takes much longer to find the ones that are underserved pretty much.
All kinds of very weird long tail queries already been, uh, covered. Um, I’m not saying there are no long tail queries mean the industry is there. There’s still a lot of gaps that you can fill in, but it’s just becoming more, um, it’s more saturated compared to like a year ago. Wow. Of, um, yeah, so that’s one thing.
Um, I think I know a lot of people speaking of, of affiliate, uh, content, a lot of people are. Were hit because their sites had a lot of lists, like, you know, best X for Y kind of, you know, lists. Um, and they were hit the hardest, but in my experience, this kind of topic, um, this kind of content can still work, uh, within a site, I would say like 95% of our content is purely informational, but then we do go after these queries as well, uh, affiliate and we monetize just using Amazon, no other affiliate, uh, program, but it can still work.
So it’s not dead. It’s just, uh, in my view, my experience, it’s just a question of the balance. If you take a strong informational websites and then occasionally you run with a, a list kind of know, affiliate kind of, uh, content that that’s okay. So for, for us, um,
Jared: it’s interesting to hear you talk about the competition increasing.
I. I guess it’s a two part question. Are you using, you know, certain tools that, that you could talk about to find these keywords? And then do you think that as tools have gotten so much better in the last couple years at finding these longer tail low competition keywords, that’s part of the reason, but I guess it’s a two part question for you.
Anne: Um, I, I think it, I think the tools definitely have something to do with it and this, at least in the sense that everybody seems to be going after the same kind of batch of keywords. So, uh, those, so in my, we use everything, we use AA trips, um, and I keep trying new tools. I low fruits. I like, I think it’s a good tool.
So, um, I have a lot of respect and appreciation for the tools in the end of the day. I think for me, Deciding, you know, making that decision, whether a topic should be included in the content plan or not. Uh, I don’t base that just of these tools because they can be extremely misleading. Uh, for example, a lot of people think it’s like a very simple game.
It’s, it’s the search volume versus the keyword difficulty. Um, and I think it’s a, it’s a very risky approach because what people, uh, sometimes. You know, they, they forget that the keyword difficulty is a very simple metric. It just, you know, just shows you the, the domain authority of the top 10 results, uh, on the first page, something like that.
And that is not necessarily a good indication of, of how much competition there is out there. So you have to actually go and look at the search results. It could be that you have, you know, lots of very, uh, strong high authority sites there, and they’re not targeting the query at all. So, uh, in my sense,
Jared: so it would show is a, a very difficult keyword when in fact, yeah, no one’s ever produced anything.
And so it’s actually very easy if you just wrote the, the topic and you are topically relevant for the general topic, you, you could outran and then rank for a very difficult keyword based.
Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and those are the keywords that people are miss missing out
Jared: on because right. Cause they’re the tools aren’t, aren’t rendering
Yeah. Yeah. Also on the other hand, you can see like keyword difficulty zero or one and oh five or whatever it is, the low numbers and you go in and you see like the. Talked many results are spot on addressing the search intent, you know, head on. There’s just no way. I mean, you could try, but it doesn’t mean that, uh, that it’s an easy, uh, keyword.
Um, also I’ve noticed recently that’s I think even more so since the very last update in June that the domain authority is no longer, you know, it’s not like they let’s say you have several websites going after the same query, same search intent. And then you have, it used to be that the higher, the domain authority, you know, the higher they rank and that has changed.
I’m seeing so many times, you know, the low Dr. Coming above the, the high one. I’m not sure. And, you know, it, I think the algorithm is basically just so complex. Uh, I have a feeling that , even if you were to ask Google engineers, they wouldn’t know
Jared: why I agree with you, by the way. No one person knows all of the, the secrets or, or how it all comes together.
Anne: I think in the end, yeah. Sorry. Yeah, I just, no, go ahead. A lot of it is I. um, and experience. And I think that’s maybe where I have somewhat of a benefit just having created over 15,000 topics to date. Uh, that’s the number of published articles. So I, and I know, you know, I keep looking to see what happens with them, right?
I’m I’m looking at our stats to see what worked out and what worked and what didn’t. So I have this kind of intuition sometimes, and I’m saying, okay, I think this is a good . I think this one isn’t I can’t even tell you exactly why now am I always right? No, so, uh, a lot of our content fails and that’s, you know, that’s sort of, for me, that’s built into the game.
That’s just part of, of how it is and
Jared: that’s okay. I was gonna ask you about the keyword research that you do and, and you kind of started talking about you, you, how you go look at the SEARCHs and look at the results and kind of analyze in depth on that level. Let me ask you about how you construct content for a site.
There’s so many different ways to do it, right. And especially when you’re going after long tail keywords, it’s very common to get these search terms that you could have to pick. You have to pick whether to write the article about it or include it in an article that’s maybe a little bit larger of a topic, right?
So, you know, we’re talking about dogs and, you know, maybe it’s, it’s, it’s a, it’s a larger topic about, you know, uh, if dogs overheat, when they, you know, what the temperatures, when they overheat, when they walk and then you get the specific dog breed and does this dog overheat when it walks or things like that, how do you determine whether to write an article on its own for like a longer tail query informational, or if, to try to put a couple of those together into one topic that you write about.
Anne: So that’s an excellent question. And I wish I had an excellent answer. I know, I sometimes guess, uh, and what I try to do is I see the search results, you know, what, what is, what is out there and try to figure out what Google thinks is the, is the search intent here and how like read specific. It may be. So the, the bridge question, it’s an excellent example because, um, I would say if it’s a question where the breed of the dog is relevant, I mean, it’s like what to feed your Chihuahua would probably be a different answer from what to feed your great Dane or your, I don’t know, I’m not an expert on dog breed, but I’m sure different dog breeds probably have different nutritional needs based on size or level of activity and, and such.
So I. Think that with that kind of question, you have to be breed specific with the answer. And Google would know that because people would search like that. Yeah. However, uh, I can see how with other questions, maybe it doesn’t matter what breed your dog is. It’s the same. It doesn’t matter. Like how to, you know, and I’m, I, I, again, I don’t under, I don’t know that much about dogs, so I could be wrong here, but it may be that like, I don’t know, dog, um, eye care or, you know, vision, uh, you know, healthcare issues with specific specific ones.
Maybe, maybe it’s the same across all breeds. Maybe. I don’t know, um, how to train your dog nails. Maybe it’s the same. And it doesn’t really matter the size or the dog or the breed. And in that case, it really wouldn’t matter in the search results. And. It’s ultimately down to the user. So if people think the breed matters, then it matters.
It’s not like, you know, maybe a vet would say, Hey, it doesn’t really matter, but people think it matters. So it matters to them. So then you need to go, you know, to, to, to go to the long tail version and, and try the, the specific question that people ask. And sometimes it doesn’t matter. So, so you can use a little bit of common sense here to try and figure out when it’s time to, you know, cluster, um, these, um, ver variations of the question into one big article and when it’s best to really go with different, uh, articles.
Um, but I, there, isn’t an easy question, an easy answer to this one. I think it’s really a case by case.
Jared: Yeah. I asked, uh, Michael Donovan, we had him on a couple months ago, the same question his analogy had to do with, you know, he was talking. Repairing cars is his example. It wasn’t his site, but, you know, and we were kind of deep diving that topic of like, how do you jumpstart a, uh, you know, a Ford F-150.
And then do you write the article for how do you jumpstart a 2013 Ford F-150 or do you just leave it at the Ford F-150 or do you just write how to jumpstart a car? And so we were kind of, you know, reminds me of that. It’s it’s a tough one. It’s really a tough one. And you’re right. It’s probably, and I, I would, I would assume that from your a hundred, uh, you know, from your 15,000 posts that you have now that you probably, you know, the, it depends answer works really well for that.
I, um, oh, I have so many more questions for you. I realize we’re getting towards the end. So I’m gonna try to prioritize my questions here. You mentioned earlier, and I read a blog post that you wrote a while back about RPMs and about how you approach getting higher RPMs, because you talked about how you routinely get 50, 60 plus dollar RPMs.
Can you share some of those things that you, that, that you, that you see or that you’ve seen work to get higher RPMs for people who are listening?
Anne: Um, yes. Sh so there, there is, there are some things you can do to optimize, um, and increase RPM. Um, I think it might change based on your niche and the type of site.
So it’s, I think with a good kind of publishing, uh, PLA sorry, advertising platform, it’s always a good idea to reach out to your rep and try and see if they can help you if they have any ideas. Cuz I, what I like about ads thrive and media V is that they have the expertise and, and they’re good with, you know, managing that end of things.
So I don’t usually do a lot when it comes to optimizing, uh, revenue. However, there are like small things that maybe they missed and you can notice. So it’s just, uh, make sure that you have, um, the adhesive, uh, units in the first of all, have a sidebar. That’s, , that’s a good starting point cuz in the sidebar you can place more ads and then you can have the adhesive unit there at the bottom of the, the sticky ad there, bottom of the sidebar and have it on the bottom of the side, uh, as well.
Um, and I. Switch on pretty much, you know, almost all everything that they offer. So it could be video ads and it could be, um, the interstitials and on, you know, there’s just all kinds of features there. And I just make sure that we just use everything that we can to monetize. Um, I, they, you know, I hope I would hope that they don’t let you just go crazy.
You know, you would never see a media V side or an ad thrive side, just, you know, that you can’t browse because there are too many ads all over the place. So they sort of keep the balance there for you. Um, It’s also the question, you know, it’s not a question of the more ads you can squeeze in on the page, the higher the RPM.
Um, because in the end there is a diminishing, uh, um, you know, return on the number of ads because it’s the same user looking at them. So, and, and it’s a bidding war, right? So there would be highest on the first end. And then if, if your user is on the page and keeps scrolling and seeing the, the, the, the 20th, and then they just, yeah, this is the lower paying ad.
So it doesn’t help you to have it there. Mm-hmm um, so I’m not suggesting, you know, blast your page with an ad after each paragraph. It’s it’s four user experience, but it will also not, not get you the money, so it, it’s not helpful, but, uh, play around, tweak those additional features, try them out, see what they do for your side.
And then. um, and then, you know, see if, if it works for you, leave it on and I’m not a purist. I know some people are, some people they have the website and then they go, Hmm, oh, I don’t like seeing ads on my side. This is poor user experience. And then they sort of shy away and they try to limit the number of ads just so that their site would look pretty.
But I don’t care if you know what my, I don’t know, uncle or aunt would say when they see the site, I care about the revenue from the site. So mm-hmm, , I think people, people are used to seeing a lot. I I’m used to that. I don’t, I don’t turn away from a website just because it has, you know, a lot of ads. And as long as the content is good, people stay on the site.
So I would say, if you wanna go high with the RPM experiment, try all the features, don’t be afraid to do that. See what they do to your revenue and see how you wanna tweak your sites and, and, you know, create the space for that. With video ads, with sidebar, with, uh, sticky ads, wherever is possible, and then take it from.
Jared: For, for your 25 sites and, uh, your portfolio, how much are you doing? We’ll call ’em maybe custom things to it. Uh, I heard you mention stock photos. Are you producing your own unique images? I heard you mentioned video, are you producing your own video for some of these, uh, sites mm-hmm , uh, custom graphics, you know, like these little add on things that maybe aren’t necessary when you’re first starting out, but maybe they become necessary or you’ve maybe found that they add extra revenue to it.
Are you doing that or not worrying about it?
Anne: Not, not a lot. So video, I, you know, I experie experiment experiment with stuff just because I’m bored and, and I got ADHD, so I just like to try our new stuff, but, uh, video, no, I, we used to produce these really short videos, basically, like, you know, our reader’s favorites just so we can have the ads.
On the video, but now with media VI, at least you don’t have to do that. They have the universal video player , which is basically just, you know, let’s show them the ads and, you know, forget about wrapping it up, you know, wrapping a video around that. And I really appreciate that, cuz I think the videos were pretty low quality.
They didn’t add much to the site. You know, if you wanna show ads, let’s just show the ads. Uh, so we no longer do that. And then, uh, we do try to create, we use stock photos. We don’t take our own photos, usually. Um, if a writer or, you know, another team member or even myself, we just, we have the photos because I dunno we saw the product or whatever, did something with it and we wanna contribute.
That’s fine. You know, we just uploaded the photos to the, um, to the click up task and then the publication, uh, guys know to take those photos and work with them as well. That’s fine. Um, but I don’t, you know, we don’t go out of our way to do that. Uh, if it happens great. Um, if not, let’s just use stock photos.
It doesn’t matter that much. I’ve had, there’s so many little things that people swear by and say, yeah, you need to have this and that, or lots of bells and whistles. And I think it’s just really easy to get sidetracked and start dealing with stuff that just isn’t as important as producing more content, um, to try to avoid those things.
Jared: Hmm, some good advice. That’s some Sage advice it’s so easy to get distracted and barge down. Maybe a path that is not really required when you take a step back. Mm-hmm all right. I have one kind of final topic to talk about because I wanna respect your time. And that is around the topic of going back and updating previously published content.
And, uh, I’ll admit that I, I find it to be so laborious and, uh, time consuming and difficult to know what to do sometimes. Uh, we know content kind of decays as time goes on. We know that Google likes you to go back and update your content and, and republish it and add to it. And that sort of thing. What do you guys do?
I mean, 15,000 posts you’d have to have an entire team dedicated to updating old content. I would imagine. Do you, do you do that or how do you approach.
Anne: So , so this is a, this is like, it’s a bit of a painful topic because I’m hearing so many people updating their content all the time and swearing by all kinds of methods.
And we have tried them all. We have tried GSC. What we do is we have this machine that works on producing content, right. And then we try whenever there’s, I’m the one who’s on Twitter forums, you know, all of that, trying to pick up and see what other people are doing. And then when we hear something, I try to see if we can implement that, um, strategy.
But my husband, he’s the scientific numbers guy and he tells me, Hey, we need to test this, but test it properly by testing properly. I mean, , he makes, you know, we take like a group of 30 or 40 posts and then randomly divide them into a control group and the actual experiment group. It’s very scientific.
Right. And then I, I, I don’t see anyone else doing that. What people typically do is they just. Hopefully take a bunch of post work and them, and then come back and say, Hey, this worked, the post went up. Uh, and usually what you’ll see, they say, yeah, it works some of the time, right? Because some of the posts went up, but with others, it didn’t succeed.
But Hey, it worked for some of the posts. So I’ll go on working. Or we found this, that once you compare it, the control group. It doesn’t work. So nothing happens. We don’t get the additional traffic for us from updating, uh, content. And I would love for someone to show me, uh, the opposite because, uh, you know, there is something so tempting about being able to fix posts and we’ve tried everything I’ve tried post where on the second page of Google post we’re on, you know, various, um, number, you know, top 10, top five, top three went down where up, like I’ve tried all kinds of variations for updating content.
Right. And whenever we compare it to, uh, control group. Yeah, sure. The site sometimes went up. It could be seasonality. It could be something with the Google algorithm. It, I don’t know where it is, but the control group posts would go up by the same measure as the ones that we updated. Um, no less. Uh, so, and it’s an average game, right?
I mean, not everything went up neither in the control group, nor in the one that we updated, but updating the post has not moved the needle one bit. So, um, so we don’t, we just don’t, we just focus on creating more content. And I know people, I know so many people will, will listen and just be shocked and say, no, this is blessed for me.
You know, you have to keep on updating your content. Cause everybody’s doing that. Everybody’s teaching that. And I don’t know, maybe they’re right. You know, if someone out there has tried this properly like that and can show me that it works, I would love to know how, because we didn’t, uh, you know, we couldn’t make it happen.
Jared: Well, the comments on YouTube at least are open here. So maybe somebody will just drop a knowledge bomb that we’ve never heard before. I do love what you’re saying. I, I, well, I love all of it, but I, I love one point I wanna highlight is that the control group, because you’re right. It’s so easy to go and update some articles and then, Hey, we’ll come and check back in three months and they went up mm-hmm that’s success, but you have to compare that up against other articles.
Cause we know sites fluctuate as a whole, just all the time. They’re always going up and down seasonality mm-hmm updates. Um, uh, you know, you publish new content over the course of that three months and all of a sudden Google sees you as topically relevant on a topic. And so all the PostNet, um, silo go up and, and there’s so many variables.
I love that content. Um, or the, um, Control groups. Sorry. And thinking about it from a standpoint of, well, yeah, they went up, but so did everything else in the site or so did the other ones at the same amount and the same percentage, very mm-hmm, compelling at the least to think of, um, cuz it sure is a tough nut to crack in terms of figuring out and all that.
So Hey, I said it was the last question I just have to, if I’ll get, I’ll get in trouble. If I don’t at least ask you at scale about, about link building, do do we don’t have time to dive into a huge process. Okay. You’re shaking your head. Which means we’re not gonna, nothing have to have, I
Anne: don’t conversation.
I don’t do it. There’s done’s just, we don’t do any link building. I mean
Jared: $200,000 in revenue a month. No link building. Right, right. That might get more comments for the record. That might get more comments from people than the content updating one because,
Anne: because I mean, obviously we have incoming links because you know, links just get organically, you know, people link to your sites because we are ranking high.
So we get links. It’s like. This thing sort of feeds itself, but we do nothing to do this actively. We don’t reach out. We don’t use hi, we don’t. What is it? No guest posting. What is it that people do these days? ? Um, no, just nothing.
Jared: It’s so good. Right. Uh, alright. All right. This is great. Um, well let me finish by asking you what are like, what are the goals for this portfolio?
I mean, just from a high level, are you, are you working towards a sale incrementally, like try to sell ’em off when they hit certain milestones and peel them back. Are you looking to hit a hundred sites? Uh, are you looking to try to sell them all as one big media conglomerate? I’m just curious where what’s, what’s the goal here?
Anne: So we have some personal circumstances because we moved from another country to the us. So there are all kinds of tax implications. And, uh, we, one thing I should say, we, we try to work with experts for a possible, so, so that will be like a piece of advice I have for anyone who wants to scale. Get experts get legal advice from experts, get accounting advice from experts.
Uh, we even have, we hired a COO, um, and she’s like a top level COO and she sort of brought a whole company up like whole new level with contracts, with procedures, with all of that. So based. So, so our plans are like based on our circumstances in terms of all this, um, moving from one country to another business.
Mm mm-hmm um, so what we will probably do is hold on to, um, the established sites. For as long as this works, it could be, uh, you know, I, I don’t know. I wanna say five years, just because five years in this business is like an infinity. I mean, who knows what will happen a year from now, but basically long term.
Um, and then we also, we are working on, on creating a part of the portfolio where we will sell some of the sites. Um, I hope to start selling either the, by the end of this year or maybe early in 2023. Uh, and there will be like a kind of ongoing exit because, you know, every site that you sell, you basically selling a, a, you know, bunch of revenue generating posts that are getting, you know, being moved out of the system.
So they will no longer generate revenue, but then irrigating the multiples for, um, potential revenue. So we wanna do that. We will be selling sites, um, but. We are not planning on an exit in the next few years. So ,
Jared: it’s great. It sounds like a good strategy and, and you’re right. I mean, uh, it, it’s a good reminder for people who haven’t heard it or have maybe, you know, numbed a bit to it.
Like when you sell a site, you have potentially broker fees, it’s a common, you know, it’s a common, uh, common percentage that comes off the top, um, tax implications. And that varies by person by country, by state, by all these things. Mm-hmm , that can take a lot off the top. And so you wanna make sure that you’re.
You know, really cognizant of, of, of kind of the numbers behind the deal before you just sell it. You never actually, you know, kind of get that full amount unless you, uh, have something that some trick up your sleeve that no one knows. So, well, it, I mean, I’ll wrap it up by saying it has been a real treat to have you on.
Thank you for coming on. Thank you for sharing. Candidly, can
Anne: I, can I add just a small thing, Jared? It’s just important. Okay. So I there’s one message that’s really important for me to get out is for people to try things for themselves. Um, I know that even an interview like this, people like hear the numbers and the figures and it just makes you people call it inspired.
So yeah, inspired if you like, because I, if I man managed to get from that, to this, you know, this, that like anyone could do it, et cetera. So first I want people to remember that it’s risk. I wouldn’t have invested, uh, like loans or anything like that. We used our own money, money from the business and we kept reinvesting it.
And we are I’m at the age. where we have our funds and our savings. And we can sort of rely on that. Uh, it is a risky business. It’s not easy, it’s challenging and whatever you do, uh, try things out for yourself, just because for mailing building doesn’t work or content updating doesn’t work doesn’t mean that it won’t work for someone else.
Um, by the same token, whoever you follow it doesn’t matter if they have a course, if you follow them on Twitter, on their blog, whatever, um, you know, I have it written like on my blog on yay.com. I have it written like your mileage may vary because I think it’s so important. People like keep looking for the silver bullet for something that will surely work because it worked for someone else.
Um, and it just, it just doesn’t work like that. So, you know, be careful be mindful of that. Try things out for yourself, uh, before you scale, uh, and make sure that you know what you’re doing. Uh, can you cuz not everything works out. You can also fail in this.
Jared: I love you said it. Cause I was gonna ask you to tie it up and, and wrap a bow on it for us.
Oh, sorry. No, you don’t have to apologize. You, uh, you clearly were reading my mail there. You knew exactly what I was gonna ask. Cuz it was, there’s so many big picture ideas that we kind of touched on and we didn’t really. You know, we could have dived deep and spent an hour just on exactly how you set up a content process.
That’s operationally focused. We could have spent all of this time talking about RPM, uh, you know, and how to really, uh, go deep into, um, getting your RPMs as high as possible. We could have gone deep on the keyword research and the niche validation. So we stayed really high level, which I think deserved kind of Ty it all back up.
So I’m really glad you, you did that where, so where can people, um, kind of follow along on your journey? Uh, where would you want to, uh, to direct people to keep up with you?
Anne: So I think the best place would be my blog and that’s ca.com Y E Ys, uh, dot com. And I’m also on Twitter, but the blog is probably the best place.
Um, To follow, um, and, and get in touch. I always, I, I get a lot of responses to post I don’t blog that often. I wish I could. Uh, it’s usually like on a good month, it would be twice a month. I do have a case study, an ongoing get case study of four websites that I’m tracking in on this year in 2022. So I just share the stats and these are new sites.
There is not, these are not established sites. We started them. Um, Usually, um, last year, the end of last year. So they’re relatively new and I’ll just show, and I think that’s, that also goes back to what I just said. You can see that out of the fore sites, not all of them are successful. So, um, and that’s fine.
I sort of put them out there before I knew if they would work or not. I just, you know, I just let people see transparently what really happens when, and even if you have the experience, even you have the intuition, even if you have the resources, it does not mean that your side will succeed. Some do better than others.
So that’s what you have on, on the blog. And, uh, people do respond and do leave comments, and I love that and I always reply to comments. So, uh, okay. That’s a good.
Jared: To reach out to you. Good. We’ll include, uh, we’ll include a link below for people who want to jump over. Ah, man, thank you so much for coming on board.
Uh, congratulations on the success you and your husband and your entire company are, are achieving. I, uh, I wish we’d waited maybe just one more month. We could have celebrated that $200,000 milestone. Yeah. Seems to be a trend. I keep interviewing people right before their milestone. I, I think I did it a month or two ago with someone else, so, but, um, congratulations on your success.
Thanks for coming out. And
Anne: I’m glad you interviewed me then today. That, that means that next it’ll work.
Jared: I got an email, literally three days after I did the interview saying I got the number that I talked on the podcast about almost kidding. And I was like, ah, could have waited three days, man, but yeah, so hopefully three days for you and you’ll, you’ll be there.
uh, okay. Thanks Ann. Really appreciate it. We’ll we’ll catch up again.
Anne: Thank you very much. Thank you. Bye.